Author Archives: edmundscommunitycourier

Edmund’s Community Courier Fall 2017

Edmund’s Community Courier Fall 2017


Carol May

Yes, it has been a long time since a Courier was last posted, but a lot has been going on and my computer, actually AOL, did eat my homework! Fortunately, they were only e-mails, but they were about a thousand e-mails that I was saving and some pertained to Chandlers. I am also replacing my failing, old computer.

The Courier has been accessed world wide and now I get e-mails from all over. I am also finding bits of our research on family trees and also on the big Family Tree at This is a good thing except the posters often annoyingly do not post the updates and corrections that we make. We started out, and continue to be, a research group, so updates and corrections are part of the game.

I have more stories backlogged for future issues. If any of you are computer savvy, I need help posting the Courier so pictures and maps can be included.

If you have not signed up for the Courier, you can sign up on the right hand side of the page as it is getting too complicated to also send out individual e-mail notifications.

If you have a change of address and are a Chandler Family Association member, make sure to contact Helen at:


Hale news, news and queries about Maine Chandlers, a great link to an English Daily News story on research about how the English are not all English, a summary of the different kinds of DNA tests and more.



Did you know that the English don’t DNA test as all English? That in some areas of England 45% test as French and in other areas 25% test as German? That the Welsh are the most “English?” That there is little DNA trace of Scandinavians or Romans?

In the future there may be more studies updating these findings. However, if you have participated in an autosomal DNA test, this story may help explain, or further confuse you, about your own results.

Here is the link:

or try

English genomes share German and French DNA while Romans and Vikings left no trace | Daily Mail Online also has an interpretation of how English or British the English are. Here is the link:

The British Are Less British Than We Think – Ancestry Blog

For a short summary of the different kinds of DNA tests see the last story in this issue.


Out of the blue came an e-mail from Robyn and Paul of Australia seeking contact with our member, Angela, as Robyn shared the same ancestor, William Hale (1858-1926) as Angela. William Hale was the former Mayor of Botany, New South Wales.

For those of you who are new, we had a match between Angela’s father, an Australian with Northern Irish roots, surnamed Hale and our Y-DNA Chandler testees. That was a big surprise to all. We figure the common ancestor probably lived in the 1500s which was the century when Edmund was born.

We still don’t know if Hales were once Chandlers or vice versa centuries ago.

Angela updated me with what is going on with the Hale research. She hired genealogist in Northern Ireland who found Thomas Hale’s baptismal record in Tandragree in the Parish Church which was the Church of Ireland. The Church of Ireland is the Irish equivalent of the Church of England. Both are Protestant. He was baptized April 1, 1831. His parents were William and Euphemia Hale of Lisbane Townland. That is where the research hit a brick wall.

On the DNA front, Angela is still waiting for the results of he Full Genome Y-elite 2 test. That test is more detailed and it is done by a different company than our regular Y-DNA tests. The results should available in December. Hopefully, it will help focus in on how close Edmund was to Angela’s Hale ancestors.


We had an inquiry from Julie about Esther Ann Chandler. Her lineage is, starting with Edmund, the immigrant:

Edmund > Joseph Chandler+Mercy > Edmund Chandler+Elizabeth Alden > Capt. John Chandler + Bethiah Rickard > Jonathan Chandler +Rebecca Packard > Ichabod Chandler+Olive Fish > Freeman Chandler+Esther Austin > Esther Ann Chandler.

Julie is searching for Esther Ann’s birth record. Esther Ann was recorded in the US 1850 census in the household of Freeman and Esther, but that might not be enough for the DAR as proof of her lineage. Julie’s goal is to have Esther Ann Chandler’s lineage recognized.

Julie has searched the big genealogy library in Allen County, Indiana, the Indiana DAR, records in Iowa and Oklahoma where Esther Ann Chandler, now Bratcher, ultimately settled to no avail.

Most of Esther Ann’s siblings’ births were recorded in Foxcroft, Maine. Esther Ann and Freeman Chandler, Jr. were also born in Maine, but no record of their birth has been found nor has the birth of youngest sibling Olive Chandler, who was born in Ohio, been found.

I found a birth date in three My Heritage family trees for Esther Ann of March 6, 1831 in Poland, Maine, but no source for the information.

It was not unusual for Foxcroft Chandlers to also be recorded in Poland, Maine as that area was were they first settled before moving to Foxcroft.

If one of you has the source, let me know!


We had a story in the Courier about the Bible that belonged to Julia F. Chandler a while back. The Bible is now in the possession of the CFA.

Since then I came across a letter for sale on eBay authored by Julia’s mother, Almira (Webster) Chandler which probably was once in the same collection of memorabilia as the Bible. I bid $16.04 cents and lost to an antiquarian dealer. I did get to see bits and pieces of the letter when it was for sale on eBay.

Much to my surprise as a result of the story on the Julia F. Chandler Bible, I got an e-mail from Ginny Gross, a research assistant who works for the Oshkosh Public Museum in Oshkosh, Wisconsin, who transcribed Nancy (Chandler) Derby’s diary – 309 single spaced pages! She is editing the diary and plans to send me a copy of the project in 2018 if all goes well. Many relatives are mentioned so we may be able to fill in more Maine Chandler blanks.

Nancy was Julia’s cousin. Technically, first half cousin. Their common ancestor was Rufus Chandler, but different grandmothers. In color are their common ancestors. See lineages below.

Nancy (Chandler) Derby’s lineage starting with Edmund, the immigrant is:

Edmund Chandler > Joseph Chandler+Mercy > Joseph Chandler+ Martha Hunt > Jonathan Chandler+Rachel Mitchell > Rufus Chandler+Nancy Cushing > Joel Chandler+ Eliza Stackpole > Nancy Chandler Derby.

Julia F. Chandler Allan’s lineage starting with Edmund, the immigrant is:

Edmund > Joseph Chandler+Mercy > Joseph Chandler+ Martha Hunt > Jonathan Chandler+Rachel Mitchell > Rufus Chandler+Abigail Dennison > Edward Chandler + Almira Webster > Julia Chandler

Surprisingly, Nancy mentions a letter telling the death of Capt. Edward Chandler. The news may have come from the same letter that was on eBay. Capt. Edward Chandler was a sea captain based out of New York, although his home was in Maine. According to both the diary and letter, “He died at sea, with the yellow fever”.

Nancy was born in 1830 in Freeport, Maine. Her birth was recorded in August 30, 1830 of the vital records of Phillips, Franklin County Maine and August 31, 1830 in Alexander, Washington County, Maine. In those days births were often recorded in several towns which leads to confusion today as to where that person was actually born. In the 1850 US census she was enumerated in Alexander, Washington County Maine.

According to Ginny Gross, Nancy married George Derby in Massachusetts. They moved to Oshkosh in 1854. In 1859 she and her husband moved temporarily to Sumter County Alabama where he worked for the North East and South West Railroad making bricks for the bridge trestles. They returned to Oshkosh in 1861. the diary covers 1857 to may of 1869. She probably continued to write in her diary, but those diary books are missing and probably were lost or destroyed over the years.

Nancy tells of visits by relatives including Julia’s brother, Augustine W. Chandler. He went back to Maine to get his wife and he worked in the pinery for at least a year. Lumber was a big industry in Oshkosh at that time.

Hopefully, we will have more about Nancy’s life and those of her relatives when the editing project is complete.


Our former Edmund Chandler Association treasury has finally made the move over to the Chandler Family Association where we are now Chapter 13. Bob, our former treasurer when we were the Edmund Chandler Family Association, has handed over our treasury to Helen Chandler, the treasurer of the CFA. Our money will be kept in a separate account for dedicated to research related to Edmund Chandler.


DNA tests are additional tools, often essential tools, in the genealogy toolbox, but you have to find the right tool for the right job. Below is a short summary of the tests.


Our Chandler Family Association sponsors the Y-DNA Chandler project which has over 500 participants. Go to the CFA main page and click DNA for more information about the project. It is for men only and follows the male line. Most of our Chandler testees have found matches among the many genetically different Chandler families. There is usually no fuzzy, gray area. Either you match and belong to that family or you don’t. It is an excellent tool to confirm or find your family.

There is also a Big Y-DNA test which is much more expensive and tests a different kind of marker. We do not use that test for our project. At this point, it is more for anthropological use rather genealogical and places testees on the phylogenetic family tree. It literally starts with “Adam” and moves forward in time, hopefully one day into genealogical time.


This is the test that you hear about on TV so frequently – Put away the lederhosen and bring out the kilt!

Test results are for both the male and female side of the family. It is also the least expensive DNA test. It is called Family Finder at FTDNA and AncestryDNA at Ancestry.

At this point those not familiar DNA testing are jumping out of their seats ready to sign up — genealogy made easy with one test and relatively cheap, too!

Not so fast. It really is only useful for about maybe 5 generations. Also, autosomal testing does not tell you which side of the family the match came from which is one of the reasons why it can get technical and require testing many people. It can help solve adoption and orphan mysteries, but it usually takes a lot of testing and help by experts to do that.

I met a couple of cousins through autosomal testing. One was from my Polish side who is doing extensive research in Polish records. We are still trying to figure out who the common ancestor was. The other was of New England colonial descent. We we know which ancestors we share, although more people would have to be tested to figure exactly which markers came from which ancestor. We did share pictures of our ancestors and family stories which ended up being the best part.

Then there is the part that most people get excited over – ethnicity! How much English, German, or French, etc. am I? Am I part Irish or Native American? This is what people want to know. Ancestry, FTDNA, and 23 and Me all give ethnic breakdowns.

Autosomal testing is accurate on a continental level, but not accurate for individual countries. Test accuracy may improve in the future, but it won’t change the fact that people migrated and boundaries changed over the centuries. Click the news item at the beginning of this issue for the link about the English not being all English which explains some the reasons why.

Ethnic breakdowns are a lot of fun, but should be taken with a grain of salt, maybe a pinch of salt.

I took the autosomal test at Ancestry, called AncestryDNA, and transferred a copy of the test results to FTDNA for a small fee (it may be free now) and also a copy to for free. That way I got access to three different databases and the tools at Gedmatch and FTDNA.

My ethnicity results varied widely between the different companies. For me, between Family Finder and AncestryDNA, Ancestry was closer.

Ethnic amounts can vary among siblings. Only exact twins have exact matches.

The other big surprise for many people is finding out that they are not Irish or Native American, or another ethnicity as was told in the family story. They might still have Irish or Native American ancestors, but it was far back enough so they might not have gotten any of their DNA, but the parent or sibling may have!


The MtDNA test test follows the mother’s line. It is more broad than the Y-DNA test for men. I will confess that I know very little about it, but it can be a useful tool in some cases following the mother’s line. Study up on it to see if it can help you.

Until next time, happy ancestor hunting!


Leave a comment

Filed under Uncategorized






Carol May


More DNA news this issue which includes an update on the Australian-Northern Irish match with the Edmund Chandler family.  So much going on behind the scenes both with the Edmund Chandler family and the CFA, it is hard to find the time to write the newsletter. Sorry, no pictures yet as Barb took care of that.


Watch for the excellent and award winning CFA newsletter which will be coming out in July.  It will feature interesting English travel tips and insights.  In addition there is a story on the Plymouth and Jamestown colonies compared and contrasted plus more. Make sure that you are a paid up CFA member to receive the CFA newsletter. There will also be an upcoming anniversary CFA edition with lots of pictures and diary excerpts of the just completed Chandler tour of England. This was described by many as a “trip of a lifetime” as it featured an elaborate formal dinner at the Wax Chandlers’ Guild, special tours, being announced by the Town Crier in full regalia and more.


I am looking for a descendant of Edmund’s son, Joseph, who has taken the 37 marker DNA test to upgrade to 111 markers. If money is an issue the test can be subsidized from our Edmund Chandler research treasury.  Prefer a member of Edmund Chandler chapter of the CFA.  This test is for research into the entire Edmund Chandler family so would not be solely for the benefit of the testee. Read more about it in “The Chandler Project and the U198 Project” below.


If some of the DNA stuff sounds confusing, you are not alone!  Ask, and I will try to get answers.


In this issue:






















First, a quick summary, last issue we reported a Y-DNA match with our Edmund Chandler genetic Group 13 and Roger Hale of Australia who has Northern Irish roots.  This was a BIG surprise as we thought that when we got a DNA match with our Edmund Chandler group it would be with someone in England with the surname of Chandler.


Since the last issue, the Y-DNA results have come back from the other Australian Hale who was tested.  He does match our new member, Angela’s father, Roger and thus also our Edmund Chandler group.


This match, plus their paper trail, confirms that the common ancestor for the two Hales was William Hale of Northern Ireland who was born c. 1800. We don’t know if he was born there or elsewhere. So now we have moved out of Australia and into Northern Ireland with our Hale matches.


That still leaves an over 200 year gap between Edmund Chandler’s birth and William Hale’s birth plus two different surnames.


John Chandler, our DNA expert, wrote that William Hale is theoretically close enough to have descended from Edmund Chandler. However, the scenario of Edmund having an illegitimate son with the surname Hale is pretty farfetched considering how religious he was. John was not saying that this happened only he is that close genetically.   More likely, the common ancestor between Edmund and the Hales is farther back than when Edmund was born, although how far back we don’t know.


We can do further testing to try to see if the Hales and Chandlers can be separated into two groups, right now they are one group. We don’t know which one would be the off-shoot group which means who came first the Chandlers or the Hales.


We have traced the Hales through DNA to Northern Ireland, now the issue is to try to figure out where the Chandler/Hale connection is.  Very broadly we know that Edmund was a Protestant as was Angela’s, ancestor William Hale. More specifically Edmund was a Separatist. William Hale’s family was a combination of Church of Ireland and Presbyterian according to the analysis that Angela did.


I did a crash course on the history of religion of Northern Ireland to try to figure out through religious affiliations where the Hales came from before they migrated to Northern Ireland. I found that the Church of Ireland was the Irish version of the Church of England. The Presbyterians were mainly Scottish. We already ruled out the likelihood of William Hale being Irish because he wasn’t Catholic and Hale is considered mostly an English name.


There were more Presbyterians amongst the Hale wives. People do convert and their descendants may convert back, but there was no unified affiliation in the family with the Presbyterians who were mostly of Scottish origins. So that leads us back to the likelihood of the Hales being of English origins rather than Lowland Scottish.


We don’t know when the Hales migrated to Northern Ireland. Records are few and sketchy. The earliest Hale that we could find so far was John Hale who was murdered in the Irish Massacres of 1641/42.  We don’t know if he was an ancestor of  William Hale or not.


The religious conflicts of Northern Ireland are well known to the world. In the 1600s, the English king drove many of the Irish out of their own lands and created plantations settled by Scot Presbyterians (who later became known as the Scots-Irish), English and a few others to quell, to him, the troublesome Irish.


Then the Presbyterian Scots began being a problem to the English with their quest to be independent. As a result there was a crackdown on the Northern Irish Presbyterians with England wanting them to leave Presbyterianism and join the Church of Ireland which was affiliated with the Church of England.  Politics and religion were tightly intertwined.


All the while, both the Scots-Irish and the English were having trouble with the Irish Catholics some of whom became “woodkerns.” “Woodkerns” were marauding bandits who made life difficult for the Scottish and English Protestant migrants, or invaders, depending on whose side one was on.


Many of the Scots were already experienced fighters as some them came from the borderland region between Scotland and England which was filled with “reivers.” Reivers consisted of both Scottish and English raiders. Northern Ireland was a volatile place with clashing religions and peoples.






Ireland in the seventeenth century, or, The Irish massacres of 1641-2 [ed … – Google Books


Dissenters in Ireland

BBC – Legacies – Immigration and Emigration – Northern Ireland – Irish Stew – Irish Stew – Article Page 1

Irish Ancestors

Researching Covenanter Ancestors : Return to the Cradle of Irish Presbyterianism

Free Irish genealogy websites. The 10 best free sites for Irish family history.

Hale | Irish Origenes: Use Family Tree DNA to Discover Your Genetic Origins | Clans of Ireland | Irish Surnames Map









A few of our members are also involved in the U198 project in addition to our Chandler DNA project. For anyone looking to find out which Chandler family that they belong to, our Chandler DNA project, of which the Edmund Chandler family is a participant, is the place to go. Our Chandler DNA project is the clearing house, so to speak, for all Chandlers and most have found matches. Here is the CFA link: Chandler Family Association – The Chandler DNA Project

While the Chandler DNA project traces back through genealogical time (that’s when surnames began being used) the U198 project is more anthropological going forward in time starting from the first man.  Naturally no one knows the names of these early individuals, so it is really anthropology rather than genealogy.


Several million people have the U198 genetic marker and the project is working on dividing them into smaller and smaller groups. The Hales and Edmund Chandler descendants have the U198 marker. The Edmund Chandler family is the only Chandler family that I know of that has the U198 marker. The U198 project is trying to work its way forward into genealogical time.


Both of our projects are trying to figure out where the Hales split off from the Chandlers or vice versa.  Two Hales and one Edmund Chandler descendant of Edmund’s son, Benjamin, have upgraded their Chandler DNA project tests from 67 markers to 111 markers.  We need to upgrade a descendant of Edmund’s son Joseph for comparison.  The available male descendants of Edmund’s son, Joseph, have only taken the 37 marker test so upgrading one of those tests will be more expensive.


So, if you descend from Edmund’s son, Joseph, and wish to upgrade your test to 111markers, let me know. Upgrading is just a matter of telling the FTDNA and paying the additional money.  You don’t have to send in another sample. As we have a fund for research, if money is an issue we can subsidize or partially subsidize the upgrade from our treasury.  This upgrade is more for the benefit of the whole group rather than just an individual as we hope to find out if the descendants of the Hales, Benjamin or Joseph Chandler can be separately identified by markers. The project discount price for the upgrade from 37 markers to 111 markers is $220.00. Preference will be given to Edmund Chandler chapter members of the CFA.


We are presently waiting for more test results to come back, and hope to have the results next time from both the Chandler DNA project and the U198 project.





The last financial report from Bob shows the same amount of money that we have now as we have not had expenditures.  As a reminder, we did not merge our treasury with the Chandler Family Association when we merged with them.  The money is still set aside for Edmund Chandler family research.  Some of which we plan to use for DNA research.   Our English CFA members are out there scouting for Chandlers in general. If anything promising shows up, we can consider sponsoring a DNA test.


Also, there is nothing so far on finding a place for the plaque in Duxbury.  Billie has been contacted by the new owners of Joseph (Edmund’s son) Chandler’s home as they are very interested in the history of the house.  They are in luck, as Billie was able to research the house and both go further back in time and correct the mistakes of past research.  It is a big deal in Duxbury to have one’s house history researched with an accurate chain of title that goes back to colonial times. It’s like “genealogy” for houses!





Most New Englanders who have pre-1800 Chandlers in their family tree descend from one (or in some cases more) of four genetically unrelated Chandler families.  They are our Edmund Chandler of Duxbury, Mass, William and Annis Chandler of Roxbury, Mass, William Chandler of Newbury, Mass, and Roger Chandler of Concord, Mass. There are also a few other early smaller, but not as well-known Chandler families.


Questions have abounded over the years over whether some of the families are related and where they came from.


Just recently and surprisingly, William Chandler of Newbury, Mass descendants matched the descendants of John Chandler of 1610 Jamestown, Virginia and not another New England family in our Chandler DNA project. It is a close enough match for them to have shared a common ancestor in the past.


Both William of Newbury and John of 1610 Jamestown are part of genetic Group 7 which is divided into several sub-groups. The origins of Group 7 appear to be in Hampshire and Wiltshire, England.


Just previous to the discovery that William of Newbury and John of Jamestown share a common ancestor, it was discovered through Chandler DNA project testing that descendants of Roger of Concord matched Chandlers in England with Yorkshire roots. So now it seems quite likely that Roger Chandler came from Yorkshire as his wife’s family also came from Yorkshire which is in northern England.


For years it was speculated that Roger of Concord was the son of Roger Chandler of Duxbury, Mass, but the evidence gathered so far does not support that. Also, because we think that Roger of Duxbury and Edmund of Duxbury were related, Roger of Concord descendants should match Edmund, but they do not.


We know or at least have strong clues where all of the “Big Four” Chandlers came from with the exception of our Edmund.


The discovery of a match between the Edmund Chandler descendants and a Hale with Northern Irish roots has only deepened the mystery as the Hales do not appear to have come from Northern Ireland originally as they were not Catholic and Hale is an English derived name.





Most folks understand that Y-DNA testing is for males only. Men have the Y chromosome and women don’t. Our Y-DNA Chandler project is for Chandler surnamed males. Exceptions are name changes, adoptions and events outside the marriage.


The Y-DNA test follows the paternal line.  This is where confusion can set in. What is the paternal line?


First, look at the chart from International Society of Genetic Genealogists (ISOGG). It is a classic pedigree chart with the paternal line shown in blue.

Paths of DNA inheritance – ISOGG Wiki

Now imagine that chart filled in as far as you can with your ancestors. The very top line in blue is your paternal line which is your father, his father, his father and so on. It is also a line. It doesn’t zigzag between males and females.


Sometimes folks figure that if they are male, but their surname is “Smith”, for example, and their mother or grandmother was a Chandler that would qualify them for the Chandler DNA project. It would not because their paternal line is “Smith” and not Chandler. The line that would be followed would be “Smith.”


All is not lost if you are not a Chandler surnamed male and wish to utilize the Y-DNA test.  Find a Chandler surnamed brother, father, grandfather, uncle, male cousin or nephew to take the test as the results would also apply to you.





April, our new Edmund Chandler CFA chapter member, sent in her Chandler line and lo and behold, we have another Chandler family in Maine that we didn’t know existed. Her husband’s Chandler line beginning with Edmund (this is the preferred CFA way) and working back to her husband’s grandfather is:


Edmund Chandler>Joseph Chandler>Philip Chandler>Perez Chandler>Perez Chandler>Benjamin Chandler>Benjamin Chandler>Chauncey Chandler>Horace Chandler


The tricky part of her research was the first Benjamin Chandler.  He was born in 1804 in Duxbury, but moved to Somerset, Maine. In his death record it was mistakenly recorded that he was born in Roxbury, Mass which is not Edmund Chandler territory, but William and Annis Chandler territory. He was also the only Edmund Chandler descendant in that area of Maine.


For those interested in her ancestor Perez Chandler, I did a story on the first Perez, the meaning of his name and his Revolutionary War service as part of the Committee of Correspondence of Duxbury in a past issue of Edmund’s Community Courier which you can access by either scrolling back or using the search function.





In the Summer 2015 issue I wrote a story on Irving W. Chandler, but his mother’s maiden name was very mysterious until now.




Edmund Chandler>Benjamin Chandler>Joseph Chandler> Capt. Jonathan Chandler>Jonathan A. Chandler>William L. Chandler>George W. Chandler>Irving Chandler.)


Our member, Beth, had written the Chandler Genealogy Panel at the CFA to figure out her Chandler lineage. She knew that her ancestor, Irving Chandler, was from Ellenburg, Clinton County, New York. He was our only New York born Chandler that I have come across so far. After some sleuthing, I hit a roadblock with “Weller” Chandler.  More sleuthing revealed that “Weller” was actually William L. Chandler.


However, Irving’s mother’s maiden name was spelled in so many unique ways that it seemed impossible to figure out what it was originally. Beth wrote that Irving’s mother was Victoria Robertoh.  Robertoh seemed like a very unusual name as there were no other “Robertohs” that I could find. Census and vital records only added to the mystery. She was “Victra” Robardo on Irving’s first marriage record and “Victoria Roberts” on his second marriage record. Vermont vital records showed Irving’s father marrying “Victorine Robertold.”


I thought if I went back a little farther, her name might be revealed. I found “Victoria Doe” daughter of “Robert Doe” in the 1850 US census for Ellenburg, Clinton New York. There may have been a couple of other variations.


Instead of further research helping, it made it even more confusing. Finally, a light bulb moment when I stumbled onto the French the name Clyde Melvin Rabideau who wrote “Headstone Inscriptions of Clinton County, Vol. 3.


Most likely “Robertoh” and variations were from the name Rabideau or a similar French name. Clinton County, New York is very close to French speaking Quebec, Canada. There was also an Antoine Robider in the area. While I have come across phonetically spelled names now and again and in regional accents, it never occurred to me to think French!





I transcribed Julia’s Bible entries. The Chandler entries begin in the mid 1700s with Rufus Chandler, Julia’s grandfather, his wives, Nancy Cushing and Abigail Dennison and continue through to the mid 1800s with their children. I didn’t transcribe the Websters or the Waites. The Bible, transcription and pictures of the pertinent pages were displayed at the CFA annual meeting in September of last year.


The plan is to put the transcription and pictures of the Bible into the CFA library. We hope to find a descendant of Julia’s siblings, as it appears that she had no children, who would love to reclaim this piece of family history.




More news next time.  Until then happy ancestor hunting!













1 Comment

Filed under Uncategorized



Carol May


The biggest news this issue is finding a match between the Edmund Chandler project Y-DNA testees and an Australian with Northern Irish roots.


Our old site,  is no more. A reminder that our new site can be found at: Chandler Family Association – Genetic Chandler Family #13 – Descendants of Edmund Chandler
born England 1588

There were technical difficulties in getting the files out of the old site, but none have been lost.

Thank you James Campbell, our webmaster, for managing the ECFA web site for 11 years while raising a family, working at a full-time job, and doing missionary work in remote places of the world.

Lastly, our long-time editor, Barb, is retiring for health reasons. Thank you, Barb, for your work as editor. In addition to doing some of the writing, she posted the Courier and found many illustrations for it.

Our founder, James, is helping out by posting the Courier. He of many computer skills and me of so few!

I did have several stories on the Civil War and more on DNA, but have put them off until a future issue to bring you this breaking news.



We have been hoping for an Edmund Chandler DNA match outside of the US, but we thought it would be in England as that is where we, we meaning mostly CFA member Dick our English CFA members, have been looking.  However, the Chandler Y-DNA project is worldwide, with over 500 participants, so our match came from an Australian with Northern Irish roots!

Adding to the mystery is that this new match is not surnamed Chandler but Hale.

Angela Hale, our newest member, is an enthusiastic genealogist who asked her Dad to take the Y-DNA test.   She hoped that he would match a Hale as that is his surname. To her surprise and ours, her father was a 66/67 match with one of our Edmund Chandler testees and a 64/67 match with the remainder of our testees. That’s a very close match and the difference is negligible between the testees.

Thanks to members Angela and Dr. Bob, the tests were upgraded to 111 markers and the match held up with 107 out of 111 markers matching. That’s really close, close enough to warrant a cigar.

In addition to upgrading their Y-DNA marker tests to 111 markers, both Dr. Bob and Angela’s father also tested positive for the U-198 marker (see the U-198 story below).


Her research shows that her 5th great grandfather was William Hale, of Ballymore, Armagh County, which is now in Northern Ireland. His son, Thomas Hale, her 4th great grandfather, married in Tandragee Armagh County and then the couple immigrated to Australia from Ballymore in 1855 on the ship “Glorianna.”

Questions immediately arose.  If he was a Hale why did his descendant match the Edmund Chandler descendants?  At this point it seems geographically impossible or at least very improbable that Thomas Hale descended from Edmund as no Edmund descendants returned to the British Isles that we know about.

If not a descendant of Edmund, that could push the common ancestor of both William Hale and Edmund Chandler back even farther, before the common use of surnames.  That’s 400 plus years ago. That could explain why he was a Hale and Edmund was a Chandler. It is also possible Hales were once Chandlers or vice versa.

Hale is a habitational name of Old English origin meaning hollow or nook. Chandler, as we all know, is an occupational name, originally candle maker.

Was there unofficial adoption somewhere along the line?  Adoptions up until more modern times were usually unofficial. Family members or family friends died and the child was taken in and often given the surname of the adopting family. That’s another way a Chandler could have become a Hale or vice versa.

The Hales were probably not Irish as William Hale was Presbyterian and not Catholic. Hale is a popular name in England and southern Wales.  However, Presbyterians were mostly Scottish. So there is a possibility that William Hale was of Scots origin rather than English.  So

During the reign of King James (1566-1625), Scottish Presbyterians were sent to colonize Northern Ireland driving the Irish chieftains and their followers into the hills and marginal lands. This was the King’s way of taking care of, to him, those troublesome Irish. Those Scots later became known as the Scots-Irish. They were mainly Presbyterian Lowland Scots who moved to Ireland and mainly Church of England Englishmen who also moved to Northern Ireland. More Scots moved to Northern Ireland over time, many more Scots than Englishmen.

It is interesting to note that neither William Hale nor Edmund Chandler were Church of England as Edmund was a Separatist although he was born over 200 years before William Hale, the Presbyterian.

It is also possible that William Hale’s family were more recent immigrants to Northern Ireland as people did move there for work over the ages.

In Australia, Angela also found another descendant of Thomas Hale, the 1855 immigrant from Northern Ireland, to agree to Y- DNA testing.

Here is Angela’s story in brief.

She got as far back as her 5th great- grandfather, William Hale who married Euphemia (Austin?) with her research. They had Thomas Hale (c.1833-1919) who married Jessie Emerson in Tandragee, County Armagh, in now Northern Ireland. The couple migrated from Ballymore, County Armagh to Australia on the ship “Glorianna” in 1855.  The immigration papers indicated that they had no relatives living in Australia at the time they arrived.

From then on they were all Australians.  Their son named William Hale (1858-1926) married Elizabeth Colquhoun. They had Albert Stanley Hale (1892-1965) who married Alice Aldrich who had Ronald Ian Hale (1915-1951) who married Florence Monkley who had Angela’s father, Roger.

If the new testee from Australia also matches our Edmund group, we can research Northern Ireland further, if not, well genealogy is all about solving mysteries.

Plantation of Ulster – Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia  More about the colonization of Northern Ireland by command of King James I.

James VI and I – Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia  The King of Scotland and England.



As for the origins of our Edmund Chandler, we all know that he was documented as being in Leiden, Holland with the Separatists in the early 1600s.  Our member, Billie, did some further research that indicated that Roger Chandler was his brother and that they lived in Colchester, Essex, England.  Alas, the researchers, authors of books on Pilgrims, who she contacted, did not have the paperwork, just the memory of it!

We do know from Roger’s marriage record that he was listed as being “of” Colchester.  Our fellow CFA members in England are also looking for Chandlers to Y-DNA test. Rochester is another area that is a possibility for Edmund’s origins.

Another question arises, if Edmund could have been “of” Colchester, were his family roots there or were they from elsewhere?



Our Chandler/Hale surprise is not the only DNA news that we have. Two of our members, one being Angela’s father and the other being Dr. Bob, have also joined the U-198 DNA project as they both tested positive for that marker.

Unlike the Y-DNA project that deals in genealogical time which covers the time of surname usage which began about 500 years ago for common people, the U-198 project focuses on deep ancestral research — think tribes and spears.  Their results are also applicable to the rest of the Edmund Chandler Y-DNA project testees.

Below is our member, Dick’s, explanation of haplogroup R1b that Edmund’s descendants belong to and the U-198 project.

Haplogroups are the main branches of the human evolutionary tree, consisting of groups of DNA patterns which are inherited from a common ancestor, and somewhere in their genes a specific genetic mutation unique to that haplogroup.  Edmund descendants belong to haplogroup R1b, the most common European haplogroup, carried by about 70% of English men.  Within that haplogroup, a small percentage (about 2% of that 70%) carry an additional mutation at one specific location – named U-198 – in their Y chromosome.  (The actual mutation is the nucleic acid adenine occurring at that location, where everyone else in R1b has the acid guanine at that location.) Any man, of any surname,  carrying that mutation can join the U-198 project, which aims to establish where and when that additional mutation occurred, probably 4 to 5 thousand years ago in Europe, whereas the R1b identifying mutation occurred about 25,000 years ago.

As you can see, the mutation named U-198 occurred thousands of years before the use of surnames – back in the days of tribes and spears.  However, one of the goals of the U-198 project is to find out the surnames of those who test positive for U-198 and where they can be found in modern times and to see what patterns might emerge. For more information about the U-198 project:




“Genealogy Roadshow” will be back on PBS starting May 17, 2016. Participants from Boston, Miami, Houston, Los Angeles and more will be featured.


More news next time!






Leave a comment

Filed under Uncategorized