EDMUND’S COMMUNITY COURIER
More DNA news this issue which includes an update on the Australian-Northern Irish match with the Edmund Chandler family. So much going on behind the scenes both with the Edmund Chandler family and the CFA, it is hard to find the time to write the newsletter. Sorry, no pictures yet as Barb took care of that.
Watch for the excellent and award winning CFA newsletter which will be coming out in July. It will feature interesting English travel tips and insights. In addition there is a story on the Plymouth and Jamestown colonies compared and contrasted plus more. Make sure that you are a paid up CFA member to receive the CFA newsletter. There will also be an upcoming anniversary CFA edition with lots of pictures and diary excerpts of the just completed Chandler tour of England. This was described by many as a “trip of a lifetime” as it featured an elaborate formal dinner at the Wax Chandlers’ Guild, special tours, being announced by the Town Crier in full regalia and more.
I am looking for a descendant of Edmund’s son, Joseph, who has taken the 37 marker DNA test to upgrade to 111 markers. If money is an issue the test can be subsidized from our Edmund Chandler research treasury. Prefer a member of Edmund Chandler chapter of the CFA. This test is for research into the entire Edmund Chandler family so would not be solely for the benefit of the testee. Read more about it in “The Chandler Project and the U198 Project” below.
If some of the DNA stuff sounds confusing, you are not alone! Ask, and I will try to get answers.
In this issue:
*MORE ON THE MATCH BETWEEN THE CHANDLERS AND THE HALES
*THE CHANDLER PROJECT AND THE U198 PROJECT – MORE DNA NEWS
*THE EDMUND CHANDLER TREASURY
*THE “BIG FOUR” NEW ENGLAND CHANDLER FAMILIES’ DNA NEWS
THE PATERNAL LINE: WHAT IS IT?
*A NEWLY DISCOVERED EDMUND CHANDLER LINE IN MAINE
*IRVING CHANDLER UPDATE: HIS MOTHER’S MYSTERY NAME SOLVED?
*JULIA CHANDLER BIBLE UPDATE
MORE ON THE MATCH BETWEEN THE CHANDLERS AND HALES
First, a quick summary, last issue we reported a Y-DNA match with our Edmund Chandler genetic Group 13 and Roger Hale of Australia who has Northern Irish roots. This was a BIG surprise as we thought that when we got a DNA match with our Edmund Chandler group it would be with someone in England with the surname of Chandler.
Since the last issue, the Y-DNA results have come back from the other Australian Hale who was tested. He does match our new member, Angela’s father, Roger and thus also our Edmund Chandler group.
This match, plus their paper trail, confirms that the common ancestor for the two Hales was William Hale of Northern Ireland who was born c. 1800. We don’t know if he was born there or elsewhere. So now we have moved out of Australia and into Northern Ireland with our Hale matches.
That still leaves an over 200 year gap between Edmund Chandler’s birth and William Hale’s birth plus two different surnames.
John Chandler, our DNA expert, wrote that William Hale is theoretically close enough to have descended from Edmund Chandler. However, the scenario of Edmund having an illegitimate son with the surname Hale is pretty farfetched considering how religious he was. John was not saying that this happened only he is that close genetically. More likely, the common ancestor between Edmund and the Hales is farther back than when Edmund was born, although how far back we don’t know.
We can do further testing to try to see if the Hales and Chandlers can be separated into two groups, right now they are one group. We don’t know which one would be the off-shoot group which means who came first the Chandlers or the Hales.
We have traced the Hales through DNA to Northern Ireland, now the issue is to try to figure out where the Chandler/Hale connection is. Very broadly we know that Edmund was a Protestant as was Angela’s, ancestor William Hale. More specifically Edmund was a Separatist. William Hale’s family was a combination of Church of Ireland and Presbyterian according to the analysis that Angela did.
I did a crash course on the history of religion of Northern Ireland to try to figure out through religious affiliations where the Hales came from before they migrated to Northern Ireland. I found that the Church of Ireland was the Irish version of the Church of England. The Presbyterians were mainly Scottish. We already ruled out the likelihood of William Hale being Irish because he wasn’t Catholic and Hale is considered mostly an English name.
There were more Presbyterians amongst the Hale wives. People do convert and their descendants may convert back, but there was no unified affiliation in the family with the Presbyterians who were mostly of Scottish origins. So that leads us back to the likelihood of the Hales being of English origins rather than Lowland Scottish.
We don’t know when the Hales migrated to Northern Ireland. Records are few and sketchy. The earliest Hale that we could find so far was John Hale who was murdered in the Irish Massacres of 1641/42. We don’t know if he was an ancestor of William Hale or not.
The religious conflicts of Northern Ireland are well known to the world. In the 1600s, the English king drove many of the Irish out of their own lands and created plantations settled by Scot Presbyterians (who later became known as the Scots-Irish), English and a few others to quell, to him, the troublesome Irish.
Then the Presbyterian Scots began being a problem to the English with their quest to be independent. As a result there was a crackdown on the Northern Irish Presbyterians with England wanting them to leave Presbyterianism and join the Church of Ireland which was affiliated with the Church of England. Politics and religion were tightly intertwined.
All the while, both the Scots-Irish and the English were having trouble with the Irish Catholics some of whom became “woodkerns.” “Woodkerns” were marauding bandits who made life difficult for the Scottish and English Protestant migrants, or invaders, depending on whose side one was on.
Many of the Scots were already experienced fighters as some them came from the borderland region between Scotland and England which was filled with “reivers.” Reivers consisted of both Scottish and English raiders. Northern Ireland was a volatile place with clashing religions and peoples.
Ireland in the seventeenth century, or, The Irish massacres of 1641-2 [ed … – Google Books
Dissenters in Ireland
BBC – Legacies – Immigration and Emigration – Northern Ireland – Irish Stew – Irish Stew – Article Page 1
Researching Covenanter Ancestors : Return to the Cradle of Irish Presbyterianism
Free Irish genealogy websites. The 10 best free sites for Irish family history.
Hale | Irish Origenes: Use Family Tree DNA to Discover Your Genetic Origins | Clans of Ireland | Irish Surnames Map
THE CHANDLER PROJECT AND THE U198 PROJECT NEWS
A few of our members are also involved in the U198 project in addition to our Chandler DNA project. For anyone looking to find out which Chandler family that they belong to, our Chandler DNA project, of which the Edmund Chandler family is a participant, is the place to go. Our Chandler DNA project is the clearing house, so to speak, for all Chandlers and most have found matches. Here is the CFA link: Chandler Family Association – The Chandler DNA Project
While the Chandler DNA project traces back through genealogical time (that’s when surnames began being used) the U198 project is more anthropological going forward in time starting from the first man. Naturally no one knows the names of these early individuals, so it is really anthropology rather than genealogy.
Several million people have the U198 genetic marker and the project is working on dividing them into smaller and smaller groups. The Hales and Edmund Chandler descendants have the U198 marker. The Edmund Chandler family is the only Chandler family that I know of that has the U198 marker. The U198 project is trying to work its way forward into genealogical time.
Both of our projects are trying to figure out where the Hales split off from the Chandlers or vice versa. Two Hales and one Edmund Chandler descendant of Edmund’s son, Benjamin, have upgraded their Chandler DNA project tests from 67 markers to 111 markers. We need to upgrade a descendant of Edmund’s son Joseph for comparison. The available male descendants of Edmund’s son, Joseph, have only taken the 37 marker test so upgrading one of those tests will be more expensive.
So, if you descend from Edmund’s son, Joseph, and wish to upgrade your test to 111markers, let me know. Upgrading is just a matter of telling the FTDNA and paying the additional money. You don’t have to send in another sample. As we have a fund for research, if money is an issue we can subsidize or partially subsidize the upgrade from our treasury. This upgrade is more for the benefit of the whole group rather than just an individual as we hope to find out if the descendants of the Hales, Benjamin or Joseph Chandler can be separately identified by markers. The project discount price for the upgrade from 37 markers to 111 markers is $220.00. Preference will be given to Edmund Chandler chapter members of the CFA.
We are presently waiting for more test results to come back, and hope to have the results next time from both the Chandler DNA project and the U198 project.
THE EDMUND CHANDLER TREASURY
The last financial report from Bob shows the same amount of money that we have now as we have not had expenditures. As a reminder, we did not merge our treasury with the Chandler Family Association when we merged with them. The money is still set aside for Edmund Chandler family research. Some of which we plan to use for DNA research. Our English CFA members are out there scouting for Chandlers in general. If anything promising shows up, we can consider sponsoring a DNA test.
Also, there is nothing so far on finding a place for the plaque in Duxbury. Billie has been contacted by the new owners of Joseph (Edmund’s son) Chandler’s home as they are very interested in the history of the house. They are in luck, as Billie was able to research the house and both go further back in time and correct the mistakes of past research. It is a big deal in Duxbury to have one’s house history researched with an accurate chain of title that goes back to colonial times. It’s like “genealogy” for houses!
THE “BIG FOUR” NEW ENGLAND CHANDLER FAMILIES NEWS
Most New Englanders who have pre-1800 Chandlers in their family tree descend from one (or in some cases more) of four genetically unrelated Chandler families. They are our Edmund Chandler of Duxbury, Mass, William and Annis Chandler of Roxbury, Mass, William Chandler of Newbury, Mass, and Roger Chandler of Concord, Mass. There are also a few other early smaller, but not as well-known Chandler families.
Questions have abounded over the years over whether some of the families are related and where they came from.
Just recently and surprisingly, William Chandler of Newbury, Mass descendants matched the descendants of John Chandler of 1610 Jamestown, Virginia and not another New England family in our Chandler DNA project. It is a close enough match for them to have shared a common ancestor in the past.
Both William of Newbury and John of 1610 Jamestown are part of genetic Group 7 which is divided into several sub-groups. The origins of Group 7 appear to be in Hampshire and Wiltshire, England.
Just previous to the discovery that William of Newbury and John of Jamestown share a common ancestor, it was discovered through Chandler DNA project testing that descendants of Roger of Concord matched Chandlers in England with Yorkshire roots. So now it seems quite likely that Roger Chandler came from Yorkshire as his wife’s family also came from Yorkshire which is in northern England.
For years it was speculated that Roger of Concord was the son of Roger Chandler of Duxbury, Mass, but the evidence gathered so far does not support that. Also, because we think that Roger of Duxbury and Edmund of Duxbury were related, Roger of Concord descendants should match Edmund, but they do not.
We know or at least have strong clues where all of the “Big Four” Chandlers came from with the exception of our Edmund.
The discovery of a match between the Edmund Chandler descendants and a Hale with Northern Irish roots has only deepened the mystery as the Hales do not appear to have come from Northern Ireland originally as they were not Catholic and Hale is an English derived name.
THE PATERNAL LINE
Most folks understand that Y-DNA testing is for males only. Men have the Y chromosome and women don’t. Our Y-DNA Chandler project is for Chandler surnamed males. Exceptions are name changes, adoptions and events outside the marriage.
The Y-DNA test follows the paternal line. This is where confusion can set in. What is the paternal line?
First, look at the chart from International Society of Genetic Genealogists (ISOGG). It is a classic pedigree chart with the paternal line shown in blue.
Paths of DNA inheritance – ISOGG Wiki
Now imagine that chart filled in as far as you can with your ancestors. The very top line in blue is your paternal line which is your father, his father, his father and so on. It is also a line. It doesn’t zigzag between males and females.
Sometimes folks figure that if they are male, but their surname is “Smith”, for example, and their mother or grandmother was a Chandler that would qualify them for the Chandler DNA project. It would not because their paternal line is “Smith” and not Chandler. The line that would be followed would be “Smith.”
All is not lost if you are not a Chandler surnamed male and wish to utilize the Y-DNA test. Find a Chandler surnamed brother, father, grandfather, uncle, male cousin or nephew to take the test as the results would also apply to you.
A NEWLY DISCOVERED CHANDLER LINE IN MAINE
April, our new Edmund Chandler CFA chapter member, sent in her Chandler line and lo and behold, we have another Chandler family in Maine that we didn’t know existed. Her husband’s Chandler line beginning with Edmund (this is the preferred CFA way) and working back to her husband’s grandfather is:
Edmund Chandler>Joseph Chandler>Philip Chandler>Perez Chandler>Perez Chandler>Benjamin Chandler>Benjamin Chandler>Chauncey Chandler>Horace Chandler
The tricky part of her research was the first Benjamin Chandler. He was born in 1804 in Duxbury, but moved to Somerset, Maine. In his death record it was mistakenly recorded that he was born in Roxbury, Mass which is not Edmund Chandler territory, but William and Annis Chandler territory. He was also the only Edmund Chandler descendant in that area of Maine.
For those interested in her ancestor Perez Chandler, I did a story on the first Perez, the meaning of his name and his Revolutionary War service as part of the Committee of Correspondence of Duxbury in a past issue of Edmund’s Community Courier which you can access by either scrolling back or using the search function.
IRVING W. CHANDLER UPDATE
In the Summer 2015 issue I wrote a story on Irving W. Chandler, but his mother’s maiden name was very mysterious until now.
Edmund Chandler>Benjamin Chandler>Joseph Chandler> Capt. Jonathan Chandler>Jonathan A. Chandler>William L. Chandler>George W. Chandler>Irving Chandler.)
Our member, Beth, had written the Chandler Genealogy Panel at the CFA to figure out her Chandler lineage. She knew that her ancestor, Irving Chandler, was from Ellenburg, Clinton County, New York. He was our only New York born Chandler that I have come across so far. After some sleuthing, I hit a roadblock with “Weller” Chandler. More sleuthing revealed that “Weller” was actually William L. Chandler.
However, Irving’s mother’s maiden name was spelled in so many unique ways that it seemed impossible to figure out what it was originally. Beth wrote that Irving’s mother was Victoria Robertoh. Robertoh seemed like a very unusual name as there were no other “Robertohs” that I could find. Census and vital records only added to the mystery. She was “Victra” Robardo on Irving’s first marriage record and “Victoria Roberts” on his second marriage record. Vermont vital records showed Irving’s father marrying “Victorine Robertold.”
I thought if I went back a little farther, her name might be revealed. I found “Victoria Doe” daughter of “Robert Doe” in the 1850 US census for Ellenburg, Clinton New York. There may have been a couple of other variations.
Instead of further research helping, it made it even more confusing. Finally, a light bulb moment when I stumbled onto the French the name Clyde Melvin Rabideau who wrote “Headstone Inscriptions of Clinton County, Vol. 3.
Most likely “Robertoh” and variations were from the name Rabideau or a similar French name. Clinton County, New York is very close to French speaking Quebec, Canada. There was also an Antoine Robider in the area. While I have come across phonetically spelled names now and again and in regional accents, it never occurred to me to think French!
JULIA F. CHANDLER BIBLE UPDATE
I transcribed Julia’s Bible entries. The Chandler entries begin in the mid 1700s with Rufus Chandler, Julia’s grandfather, his wives, Nancy Cushing and Abigail Dennison and continue through to the mid 1800s with their children. I didn’t transcribe the Websters or the Waites. The Bible, transcription and pictures of the pertinent pages were displayed at the CFA annual meeting in September of last year.
The plan is to put the transcription and pictures of the Bible into the CFA library. We hope to find a descendant of Julia’s siblings, as it appears that she had no children, who would love to reclaim this piece of family history.
More news next time. Until then happy ancestor hunting!